Episode 68 | Dr. Josh Axe | How to do Keto The Right Way
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Today, the ketogenic diet is the world’s fastest-growing diet, and with good reason. When practiced correctly, it burns fat, reduces inflammation, fights cancer, balances hormones and gut bacteria, improves neurological diseases, and even increases lifespan. Unfortunately, many people are still confused about several of the key factors that are crucial to the diet’s success… and that sets them up for frustration and failure.
In his new book, Keto Diet, Dr. Josh Axe sets the record straight on how to start a ketogenic diet the right way…for your body and your lifestyle. Unlike other books on the subject, Keto Diet identifies and details five different ketogenic protocols and explains why picking the right one for your body and lifestyle is fundamental to your success. Keto Diet offers a step-by-step approach, which includes a sample 30-day meal plan to lose weight, balance hormones, boost brain health, and reverse disease.
In today’s show, you’ll discover…
✅ How the keto diet has been proven to burn fat, fight cancer, balance hormones, and gut bacteria, and improve neurological disease
✅ Bust common keto myths and discover key factors crucial for success on this diet
✅ Five different ketogenic protocols…and how to find the one that’s right for your body
✅ Tools to say goodbye to stubborn fat and chronic disease
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Kathy Smith: Josh, welcome to the show. Welcome back, and again, I want to say big congrats. I’m looking at the cover. I love your picture smiling at me and that big avocado. Love the book.
Josh Axe: Awesome. Thanks for having me, Kathy. It’s great to talk to you. And I think it’s been a little bit. It was funny. I was telling my mother-in-law and my wife that you and I were going to talk today.
My wife grew up in Minnesota and I went to their home recently, and she has Kathy Smith exercise videos – literally, like your entire library. It’s pretty awesome. You’re definitely a celebrity in our household.
Kathy Smith: I love hearing that. I love those oldies too. That’s so great.
Being on a ketogenic diet puts you in ketosis, but for those who aren’t familiar with those terms, give us just a quickie on what is ketosis and what are ketones.
Josh Axe: Yeah, sure. What the keto diet is, is it’s following a diet to where your body gets into a state of ketosis. And essentially, in order to do that, your macronutrient intake is typically about 70% fat, 25% protein, 5% carbs. So it’s a high fat, moderate protein, low carbohydrate diet. Today a lot of people’s bodies run solely on carbohydrates. When you remove those carbohydrates, your body says, “Well, I need to find an alternate fuel source.” So your body starts burning fat for energy.
When it burns fat, it breaks those down into ketone bodies which your body can use for energy. Your brain, in particular, loves these ketone bodies to be used for energy. It’s amazing that your body will start off burning dietary fat, but then it will start burning your own body fat for energy. People notice. They wake up the next morning looking leaner than they ever have.
Really, in terms of weight loss or fat loss, this is the most effective diet I’ve ever seen, and that’s true according to medical literature and according to the people and patients I’ve cared for over the years. So if somebody’s looking to lose weight, it’s a really powerful diet. But it goes well beyond that at fighting cancer, balancing hormones – especially insulin – reducing inflammation. That’s if it’s done the right way, not the wrong way, which I know we’ll dive into. That’s, in particular important, but I also want to say that this diet was created to mimic fasting, which is another important thing to remember too.
Kathy Smith: Right. The two go hand in hand, which I want to get into the fasting aspect also. But what prompted you to talk about these different approaches to the diet. I’m so glad you did, Josh, because here’s the thing. I’m sure you know this, that as not all diets are created equal, all of us are so different – genetic makeup, everything, male, female, hormones, all those things – and what I have found for myself and for some other people is that some of the rules that were coming out about keto weren’t applying to me.
I was finding that if I fasted too long, it wasn’t working. I would go on a keto diet, and there were some shifts – perhaps cholesterol going up or things like that. I read through your book, and it made such sense to me that there’s a program for everybody, but maybe it’s not the exact same program. So can you walk us through that?
Josh Axe: Yeah. Kathy, for me, when I first learned about the keto diet, it was when my mom had cancer. My mom was diagnosed with cancer a second time. The first time she was diagnosed, she went through the conventional medical treatments. But the second time, she decided she wanted to fight cancer and go with a natural approach.
So I spent hours and hours researching online the best supplements, spices, treatments. And one of the things I searched was diets for cancer. This wasn’t on the first page of Google. This was 13 years ago or more. But I came across this diet – the keto diet, read a medical study that was published about how the keto diet may be the future diet for cancer. I started reading more online and learning that our cancer cells actually feed off of sugar. So if you go into ketosis, you can actually starve cancer cells. Anyways, I just wanted to say that’s actually how I first discovered the keto diet.
When I created a diet for my mom, I called it the keto cancer diet. What I did was I incorporated principles of ketosis with eliminating the sugar. But also, I incorporated vegetable juicing. So she was doing a blend of celery, cucumber spinach, charred kale, cilantro, parsley, lemon, lime, ginger, and turmeric. That was sort of like a juice she was doing. She also started doing a lot of Chinese medicine herbs – everything from turmeric to reishi mushroom, using certain essential oils.
So I kind of combined keto with juicing, with Chinese medicine for her diet. That was how I first got turned onto keto. Then I realized, as I’ve been studying a lot of Chinese and Ayurvedic medicine over the last 10 plus years and realizing that everybody’s body is different, not everybody should actually be on the same diet.
With this keto plan, I created a keto cancer plan, and when I create plans, I have a full 30-day plan, I go through the supplements, I go through every single meal. Because I knew when my mom had cancer, I knew the questions she had, so I had a very specific protocol for her to follow. These are all in my book.
I also put together a keto collagen plan. This plan is great for people looking to heal their gut. Because our entire gut lining is made of collagen. So I go through how to rebuild collagen. Of course, it’s really great for your skin and your beauty. That’s in the book as well. I also have areas where I get into keto for hormones. I have a chapter on keto and hormones.
Here’s the thing, Kathy, I want to say. The men almost always seem to do well on keto. Many women do, but some women don’t do well on keto. The women I found that have a hard time on keto, it’s because their cortisol and, oftentimes, their stress hormones get a little high, especially people that are type A personalities, drivers, kind of going all the time. Imagine your adrenals as a battery that’s charged. Look at your iPhone and what percentage of your battery is there. That’s what our adrenal glands are like. If that starts getting below that 50%, then cortisol stays up, and then, your body doesn’t burn fat correctly, it affects your metabolism, and those people don’t do well on keto.
That’s really what I started discovering, so I found if somebody has hypothyroidism or adrenal fatigue and they want to do keto, they need to do keto the right way, the way I lay it out in my book. They need to eat a little bit more carbs. Not that 5%. They need to do more like 10%. Their body will still get to ketosis. It will take a little longer. The results they see will be just as powerful. But they can add in a little bit more berries, maybe a little bit of rice. Rice is the only grain I’d recommend, but just a little bit of that. Just a little more carbs, and then doing adaptogenic herbs that reduce stress hormones like ashwagandha, doing things like CBD oil.
When I started doing that with women who have the adrenal hormone issues, doing the keto diet that way, all of a sudden, they did great on the keto diet. Those are the sort of things in the book that I really go through in creating these different plans for people that want to do keto and see the results.
Kathy Smith: Right. That’s exactly what sets this book apart. And you’re absolutely right that. You go into it, and you defined it already. But each chapter with 7:00 a.m., 9:00 a.m., 11:00 a.m., whatever throughout the day, what you should be doing for your depending what your health goals are. I really appreciate that.
Let’s talk. You have a section called Eight Essential Strategies to Super Charge Your Keto Experience. I just want to go through a couple of them, but the one that I think might be shocking or whatever to so many people is this idea of fat. Again, we know the whole story about fat became the bad guy and that’s when sugar became so popular.
But people, still, in their minds, fat makes you fat, and you get in and really define how powerful and how important fat is. One of things, I’ve never really seen it like this before, and it hit home for me. You mentioned that in vegetables, we get an array of phytochemicals and nutrients so, therefore, you eat a variety of veggies in all the colors to get that variety. The same thing is true when it comes to getting an array of healthy fats. So let’s talk about some of the fats we should be getting, maybe starting with the omega 3s and 6s and what’s different with all the fats.
Really, just help us understand. 70% of your diet is going to be fat. It almost sounds a little like crazy.
Josh Axe: Yeah. It sounds like a lot, but let me also explain why. Here’s the thing that I think people are going to be excited to realize is your brain is made up of over 60% fat itself. Your brain, your nervous system, your spinal cord, it’s made up of almost all fat. Your cells are made up of mostly fat – every cell in your body. So if somebody asks what you’re made up of, it’s mostly water and fat. That’s the thing that we’re made up the most. Then, of course, there’s protein quite a bit as well. But that’s what makes up a lot of your body.
In fact, when we talk about hormones too, hormones are fat based. They’re lipids. They’re steroid based, so when we’re talking about progesterone, estrogen, testosterone, cortisol, melatonin, insulin, all these hormones, they’re fat per se. So that’s why it’s critical. And again, there are some other components. But at the same time, fat is a really important key to those. If you want to balance hormones, if you want to have a healthy brain and nerve system, healthy cells, you’ve got to be getting good fats in your diet.
Here’s the other thing. In terms of organ systems that are overstressed, most people, when you look at macronutrients, over consume the carbs the most. We know this. We over consume the carbs. Different organ systems have to deal with different macronutrients.
For instance, your pancreas has to deal with carbs – mostly your pancreas. Your liver and gall bladder deal with mostly fat. Your kidneys and your stomach deal a lot with protein. But of all the things, all the macronutrients I mentioned, we over consume carbs the most. So the pancreas is actually what needs the most rest by your body. Your pancreas needs to rest and heal.
That’s another thing too. When you go higher fat, moderate protein, low carb, your pancreas now gets to regenerate and heal, instantly gets balanced. Insulin is that hormone, when it becomes balanced, it helps balance every other hormone in your body. So a lot of times, people think, “I’ve got an estrogen problem,” it’s showing up on your bloodwork as estrogen, but it’s because insulin is truly what’s off and imbalanced. And that’s causing the estrogen problem. With all that being said, that’s a big deal.
In terms of the right fats to get in your diet, number one, we’ve got to get those omega 3s. Omega 3s reduce inflammation. They are key. You’ve got to keep those balanced with the omega 6s. So getting omega 3s including wild-caught fish. Probably the fab five are going to be salmon, tuna, mackerel, halibut, sardines. All fantastic, fatty fish. Walnuts, chia seeds, flax seeds, hemp seeds. Get more omegas that way.
Then the healthy, saturated fats. Coconut, ghee, grass-fed butter, sustainable palm oil. But especially the coconut, in terms of saturated fats, is the best. And a little bit of animal fat from things like grass-fed beef, free-range chickens, pasture-raised eggs and then the healthy mono unsaturated fats. Things like avocados, olives and olive oil, all the nuts and seeds – macadamia nuts, almonds, pistachios, pecans, those categories.
Get your omega 3s, get your saturated fats, and get your mono unsaturated fats. And that’s going to cover most of the fat people need to be getting.
Kathy Smith: Yeah. And you know what? I find that I, still to this day, keep introducing new recipes and new ways to use the fat. Like, I just bought an interesting bottle of ghee. I find that if there’s any recommendation I have for people out there is sometimes jumping into a new lifestyle and a new way of eating can seem overwhelming.
What I’ve done is just, slowly, especially when it comes to fat, start with your avocados. I get on a plane, I have an avocado with me. Start with maybe a bone broth here and there. Or start with a new oil and start sampling how you would use that oil.
What’s great about the book also, you have the whole list of them. You don’t have to jump into them all at once. But start experimenting with them. I will tell you the one thing– and I know you talk about it in the book– tell us a little bit about the ghrelin and the leptin, because what I find is that you’re just not hungry because you’re feeling satisfied.
Josh Axe: Yeah. You’re 100% right, Kathy. That’s a question I have from people, saying, “Am I going to have cravings?”
The answer is maybe the first few days, people are going to have cravings. But over all, you get really full on this diet, because you’re eating– and here’s the other key. You’re doing it the right way.
Before I jump into the leptin and ghrelin is that I’ve had patients before– I had a patient come in one time. He was a new patient, and he said, “Dr. Axe, I’m on this keto diet.”
I said, “Great. What are you eating?”
Kathy, I kid you not, it was butter, bacon, and eggs for breakfast, a bacon burger for lunch, and a bacon burger for dinner.
Kathy Smith: I don’t want to interrupt, but I remember like in the days of Atkins and the early ketos, you had people pile up with just intuitively you’re saying, “I don’t know. It doesn’t look quite as healthy as what I want to be eating.” But go ahead. You’re right. It was the bacon diet.
Josh Axe: Yeah. Then, I went on Instagram and Pinterest and it’s like you fry conventional cheese in butter, put bacon in the middle, and fried cheese again. They’re calling it keto quesadilla. That’s what gives keto a bad name. If you look at the medical research– again, if somebody’s found the keto diet the right way, it’s amazing the wrong way, it’s going to increase inflammation. But all that being said, people–
Kathy Smith: By the way and to the point in your book, one of your protocols is you could be vegan and still go keto. Is that correct?
Josh Axe: Absolutely. Yeah. One of the sections is Here’s How to do Keto as a Vegetarian or Vegan. It’s absolutely doable. In fact, it was pretty interesting. I have a doctor friend of mine who does cancer documentaries, and there’s a clinic over in Asia that they do. One clinic does a pescatarian keto and another one does a vegan keto as their anti-cancer diet at the clinics. So it’s pretty interesting.
Kathy Smith: Well, let’s switch over to collagen, because collagen is something else you are passionate about. You talk about it being one of the most important ingredients that’s missing in our diet. Why is collagen so important for our health?
Josh Axe: I think that any time I put anybody on any sort of dietary or health protocol, I want them to heal. That’s the key thing. And I want to give their body the nutrients it needs to heal. Here’s the thing that I want people to remember is that foods don’t heal you, turmeric doesn’t heal you, collagen doesn’t heal you. Your body heals itself. But if your body’s going to heal itself, it needs the right building blocks. The majority of our skin, hair, nails, bones, discs, ligaments, tendons, connective tissue, gut lining, and our anterior walls, every area I just mentioned is made up of almost pure collagen.
In fact, this might interest people, Kathy, that there is more collagen in your bones than calcium. There’s more collagen in your bones than all other minerals combined. So why do we think calcium is important for our bones? A dairy commercial from 50 years ago.
Collagen is just as important for bone health as calcium. So the reason why I talk about collagen in the book and teach people how to get it in their diet and boost their body’s own collagen production is that it’s a building block your body needs to repair itself.
Think about today, most people are eating chicken breasts, they’re eating eggs or egg whites, they’re eating steak, they’re eating plants, even rice, nuts, seeds, and beans. Those all have muscle-building proteins. Everything I just mentioned, those are good proteins for you, yet they have no collagen.
Our ancient ancestors, they drank bone broth. They ate the organ meats. They ate certain other areas of the animal that are rich in collagen. We don’t get any of that today. So collagen, if somebody’s looking to repair and heal, literally regenerate new and healthy tissue, they have to have collagen in their diet.
People, rarely today, have muscular injuries. They tend to have ligament and tendon injuries. It’s like most people don’t tear their quad muscle. They tear their ACL or they have shoulder or knew pain. This diet – and what I lay out in the book too – also regenerates collagen, allowing your joints to heal and regenerate, reduces inflammation, gets rid of pain. That’s the other big thing is we need collagen to heal certain areas of our body.
Kathy Smith: Yeah. I have jumped on board and I have noticed a huge difference in skin, hair, nails. But also, one of the things you talk about in the book, even discs. With aging and with this idea of your spine and as you mentioned, your ligaments, and all those areas that with exercise, which I do want to get into a little bit about exercise and being on keto. But with exercise and aging, we have this wear and tear on the areas you just mentioned. So to protect those areas and to build those areas up, I have found that being on collagen has really made a huge difference in my life.
Let’s talk about it. I know that you’ve got some recommendations for exercise when you go on keto. You have a lot of the hotshot athletes and people that we know, people that love to get out and do their training, do their endurance training, do their heavy lifting. Maybe let’s target it for more of the female audience and the female audience over 40.
Exercise can be a stress on the body. It can add to some of the things that you talked about before – the cortisol impact and whatever. How should we look at exercise when it comes to eating on a keto diet?
Josh Axe: What I recommend is doing things that push your body to grow, but you don’t want to go overboard and breaking your body down and creating more stress on your body.
The things that create more stress are going to be long-distance cardio. It’s going to be things like cross fit or power weight lifting. The ideal workout routine to me, Kathy, let’s say that somebody has 45 minutes. I think for them to do 25 minutes of weights, 10 minutes of intervals, and another 10 minutes of yoga or balancing, working on their stability would be good. Or mixing it up. Maybe you’re doing weights two days a week, you’re doing interval training one day a week, and something like yoga or Pilates twice a week. I think that’s what I would recommend. I do think that weights are very good for women for metabolism, building strength, bone strength as well. So I do think doing some weights. And a full body functional movement, whether it be hip hinges or body weight squats or planks or those sorts of things are fantastic for both men, but also especially women.
I do think especially the Pilates bar classes are great – yoga – are all great. People don’t need to move cardiovascular system every day. But once to twice a week actually will keep your cardiovascular system pretty healthy for most people, and ideally doing it in intervals, I think. But not an interval where you’re ready to throw up. You’re doing some intervals. You’re getting your heartrate up, back down, and up quite a bit. Really, just doing that for 10 minutes for most people goes a long way.
Kathy Smith: Yeah. My workout this morning was a TRX workout, and it was 45 minutes. Everything you said is included in that workout. That’s why I love it. In 45 minutes, we get functional training, balance training, weight training, stretching, cardio. Because we’re doing squat popups and whatever. You’re done and feel great. At the same time, my test is always my brain. If my brain is still functioning well later in the day– I know I’m kind of hitting my mark where I know I’m overdoing it or overtraining if I feel really sluggish or whatever later on. I also know that I’m not eating right.
By the way, before I go to the interview with you, it’s so funny. I just love certain things that just make me feel smarter like the sardines. I get my kale, I get a little avocado, I wrap a sardine in it. I put a little salsa on it and I feel light and energetic. So I think if somebody hasn’t tried this concept, forget about the weight loss to begin with. You will not believe what it does for your brain.
Let’s switch over, because we don’t have a whole lot of time. But I do want to get into this idea of fasting. You explained ketosis and it’s such a healing state, and then there’s this other powerful tool – fasting. This is going to be a three-part question. Let me ask you all three of them. You can chunk it together and answer all three together.
First of all, why is fasting so powerful? Kind of explain the time-restricted eating concept and the different windows. Because in your book, you talk about the eight-hour, the six-hour, and the four-hour window.
Josh Axe: I mentioned this earlier, but I’ll state it again. Food doesn’t heal you. Your body heals itself. In order for your body to heal, it needs to not be stressed. It needs to not be working. It just needs to be at rest. So when you fast, your body does nothing. It’s able to heal and regenerate itself. This is why it’s referenced frequently in the bible. It’s referenced by Hippocrates, the father of modern medicine. It’s recommended by Maimonides, all ancient practitioners. It’s widely used for helping us experience health through fasting.
Now, the keto diet, what’s unique about it– I do want to tie these in– is that in the 1920s, researchers at John Hopkins Medical Center were working with children who were having epileptic seizures and they found when they had them fast, the seizures went completely away.
So they wanted to create a diet that mimicked fasting. They tried some different things, but they found the keto diet – this high-fat diet mimicked fasting, and the seizures also went completely away for those kids. So that’s how the keto diet was more recently born. That was actually done by Eskimos and Huns and people throughout history, so it’s not the first time, but it was sort of rediscovered in the 1920s. But that’s essentially where it came from.
So fasting, whether it’s a fasting state for your pancreas on keto or intermittent fasting, it really allows your body to rest so it can literally regenerate and heal itself. So intermittent fasting, where you essentially skip breakfast and you eat maybe let’s say at 1:00, eat a little snack at 3:30, you eat dinner again at 6:00 or 7:00, sort of this six to eight-hour window. Now, your body has 16 hours a day where it’s healing and regenerating versus a lot of people only are giving it only about eight hours of rest. Because we’re eating first thing in the morning, maybe a late dinner, even a snack before bed, and we just keep our body working so it literally never gets to heal and regenerate. So I think that’s a big thing.
A four-hour window can be great if somebody’s able to do that. But I think just in general, seeing people that can do that six to eight-hour window goes a long way. I’ve specifically seen really good results with gut health and people supporting human growth hormone growth. Gut health is probably where I’ve seen the biggest improvement with when people have done intermittent fasting and keto combined.
Kathy Smith: And you don’t have to start doing it every day. I think that’s the thing people should understand is that if it seems overwhelming to try to go for that long a period of time, start with two days a week.
Once you get into it, like I am now, it’s as natural as brushing your teeth. It just feels so good. My typical day– I have to count on my fingers. I don’t know how many hours it is to tell you the truth. But I would say I finish eating let’s say about 7:30 at night. I don’t have anything to eat before I work out. I have my green tea. I have my potions in the morning, my turmeric potions, and then I go work out.
I probably eat around 11ish, sometimes 12ish, depending. But the funny thing is, you’re not hungry. Once you go in and you get on the plan, it’s like oh, it’s time to eat now. But your body feels very light. Your workouts feel good. I like to eat and make sure I get a good meal right after my workout to replace all the nutrients and all the energy and all the protein and everything.
I guess I’m more like an eight-hour window, sometimes a little shorter. And it works. Then, sometimes– and you talk about this in the book, and I think we have to get this across to people. You don’t have to be a fanatic. You can start this program and do fasting twice a week, then maybe up it if you enjoy it. But the idea is to start somewhere.
Josh Axe: Yeah. Absolutely. Let’s say for instance, you want to have something on your stomach in the morning. Then, have a little bit of espresso or coffee with some coconut oil in there. Or do some matcha green tea with just a little bit of almond milk or maybe just matcha with collagen, something like that. I think that there are ways to sort of ease your way into it, absolutely.
Kathy Smith: Okay. Then, just as one of the most interesting parts of the book to me – or useful – was your swap this for that type of thing. And I just want to finish off, because I have to tell, those little tips make everything easier. Like the lettuce wraps for the buns, the coconut milk for conventional milk, things like that. And I think that’s the key to where your book is so remarkable is that you make it doable. You make it accessible. You take out all the guesswork. So I just want to thank you again for bringing it to everybody.
Now, tell me. I know we’re going to do a lot of promotions and I’m going to close out here in a little bit. But if there’s anything else you want to say or is there a place you want people to go to get more information?
Josh Axe: Sure. I do want to mention, I do love how the recipes came out in the book. I’m kind of like a chef at heart. So I thought to myself, “What are the recipes that people are going to enjoy the most and they’re going to satisfy their body the most?”
So, in the book, we have healthy recipes for keto pancakes, keto chocolate chip cookies, keto blueberry muffins, keto fudge, keto brownies. We’re using things like almond flour, coconut flour, grass-fed butter, pasture-raised eggs, or different types of nut butters, things like that to where it is really, really satisfying. And I think the way that I lay it out, I think it’s easier than people would imagine.
People can pick up the book. It’s Keto Diet by Dr. Axe. It’s nationwide, any bookstore across the country. I will mention right now, Barnes & Noble and a lot of local bookstores, for the next week or so only, they’re giving it 20% off. So you can get it at Barnes & Noble, 20% off. Amazon’s got it on sale. I think right now, a lot of these stores have it like $12 off. It’ll probably jump up in a few weeks.
But people can buy it, check it out. We have these health plans, I think, in advance. But this is really how to do the keto diet the right way with lots of plants, lots of healthy foods. I’m just really excited mostly, Kathy, because I know people are going to see some awesome results.
Kathy Smith: I also mentioned that I was at the health food store the other day, and I saw another little promotional book of yours, which I’ve never seen anything like this in my life. I think it’s tied into one of the products that you sell – maybe a collagen or a bone broth product.
It is just full, again, of these recipes and easy to-dos. You just keep upping the game, Josh. It’s unbelievable. And I’m going to up my game here. I’m going to pick one of these recipes and I’m going to make it tomorrow morning, and I’ll shoot a picture of it.
Breakfast. Do you think the keto pancakes or–
Josh Axe: Yeah. Go with the keto pancakes.
Kathy Smith: You’re liking those. And what do you put on top of those suckers? Do you put anything like a little fruit or no?
Josh Axe: What I tend to do is I’ll buy some frozen blueberries and melt them and put a little bit of that on. But I think they’re naturally sweet. One of the things that I’ll add to them sometimes is a little bit of a vanilla collagen protein. I’ll add a little bit of the powder too for some keto pancakes sometimes. But I think they taste pretty great. Actually, the other thing that I love putting on them is melting some butter.
Kathy Smith: And almond butter you say here. I’m going to do that, the almond butter.
Josh Axe: That’s a great idea. The almond butter’s a great idea on them.
Kathy Smith: Okay. Well, I’m going to do that tomorrow. Thanks again for joining us, and I can’t wait to see you soon.
Josh Axe: Awesome. Thanks for having me, Kathy.
Kathy Smith: Okay. Bye-bye.
